The Round Table (Rational Pagans Forum)

Science & The Supernatural: A Discussion of the World Around us - Based on Science with an Interest in the Supernatural ...
It is currently 17 Oct 2018, 02:46

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Please note: Discussion here should be relatively civil. Attack the post, not the poster. Thanks!



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 43 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2008, 18:06 
Offline
Grand High Lord Admiral of Hell
User avatar

Joined: 10 Sep 2007, 13:14
Posts: 5726
Location: Buffalo, NY
Cool! So it's a 'traditional' reconstruction to pre-Christian culture.

I'm wondering how easy it is to purify, and if you have anything in-process to insure that the 'Christian' aspects don't creep back in after inclusion?

_________________
If you can't stand the heat, don't tickle the dragon ...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2008, 18:29 
Offline
Neophyte

Joined: 25 Jul 2008, 08:48
Posts: 17
Hex wrote:
Cool! So it's a 'traditional' reconstruction to pre-Christian culture.

I'm wondering how easy it is to purify, and if you have anything in-process to insure that the 'Christian' aspects don't creep back in after inclusion?

It's not an easy process, especially due to our limited resources. Other reconstructionist traditions, such as Hellenismos, have primary sources on Hellenic religious beliefs, theology(ies), philosophy(ies), rituals, etc. We, on the other hand, are not so fortunate. A plethora of early vernacular literature exists that does provide us with possible insight into pre-Christian beliefs and practices, however they were written and compiled by medieval Christian scribes. Also utilized are archaeological records, but they can only tell us so much and tend to be inadequate in regards to religious rituals. What we find in the early literature, archaeological records, and folk-traditions is often juxtaposed with the commentary of Classical writers but, again, such can only tell us so much.

As for a system to exclude Christian infiltration-- well, again, by the nature of what we're dealing with it is not possible to absolutely exclude all Christian influence in aspects of Gaelic cultures, but we hope that our community by virtue will preserve what we have reconstructed and leave it untainted by unnecessary foreign elements and influences inimical to our worldview.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2008, 18:50 
Offline
Neophyte

Joined: 25 Jul 2008, 08:48
Posts: 17
TomasFlannabhra wrote:
As for a system to exclude Christian infiltration-- well, again, by the nature of what we're dealing with it is not possible to absolutely exclude all Christian influence in aspects of Gaelic cultures, but we hope that our community by virtue will preserve what we have reconstructed and leave it untainted by unnecessary foreign elements and influences inimical to our worldview.

Though, to be honest, I'm more concerned with the infiltration of Neopaganism and modernity in Gaelic Polytheism.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2008, 19:40 
Offline
Grand High Lord Admiral of Hell
User avatar

Joined: 10 Sep 2007, 13:14
Posts: 5726
Location: Buffalo, NY
I can understand that. I'm an archaeologist/ anthropologist by trade, and the reconstruction aspect is a tricky thing as far as I'm concerned.

And, I'm not sure how to keep the modernity and neo- stuff out. In order to have the reconstructed religion 'work' or 'fit' with the modern world, some concessions are likely to be made - even unknowingly. Especially when dealing with something like Gaelic polytheism. We -have- to put our views into the reconstruction so it makes 'sense' as a cohesive system to us as modern folk.

I've seen, though, where 'new' stories and legends have been 'invented' or 'interpreted' from archaeological evidence or from textual accounts that insures that they'll be tied in to the system -and- that the cohesiveness will be interpreted in the right way (and not with any other closely related modern cultural interpretation) ...

So how much different do you thing the GN is from 'modern' society in it's worldview? Fairly compatible?

_________________
If you can't stand the heat, don't tickle the dragon ...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2008, 20:37 
Offline
Neophyte

Joined: 25 Jul 2008, 08:48
Posts: 17
Hex wrote:
And, I'm not sure how to keep the modernity and neo- stuff out. In order to have the reconstructed religion 'work' or 'fit' with the modern world, some concessions are likely to be made - even unknowingly. Especially when dealing with something like Gaelic polytheism. We -have- to put our views into the reconstruction so it makes 'sense' as a cohesive system to us as modern folk.

I didn't mean that we should live in Iron Age Ireland or abandon our modern ways of life, but rather exclude aspects of modern Western culture that are inimical to our worldview e.g. individualism, mercantile mentality, consumerism, etc. Neopaganism, which is associated with self-spirituality, eclecticism, magick, New Age philosophies, etc., is also at odds with our worldview, values, and beliefs.

Within Gaol Naofa, we are living in modern culture but perceiving it through an ancient yet timeless worldview. If that makes any sense...

Quote:
I've seen, though, where 'new' stories and legends have been 'invented' or 'interpreted' from archaeological evidence or from textual accounts that insures that they'll be tied in to the system -and- that the cohesiveness will be interpreted in the right way (and not with any other closely related modern cultural interpretation)

Right, and I generally have no problem with that so long as it is labeled as a modern interpretation or innovation from the evidence. As I see it, innovation, invention, and adaption should accommodate historical evidence and tradition, not contradict it.

Quote:
So how much different do you thing the GN is from 'modern' society in it's worldview? Fairly compatible?

Some of the characteristics that make up the Gaelic Polytheist worldview include communitarianism, civic virtue, collectivism, a strong emphasis on the family and family values, conservationism, celebration and preservation of cultural heritage, strong honor-based ethics, a sacred regard for justice, and recognizing the interdependent relationship between the sacred and secular. Of course, there is also the recognition of the multiplicity of divinity, the veneration of ancestors and natural spirits.

Gaelic Polytheism and modern society may agree on certain points, but I'm not so sure that the two are completely compatible seeing as modern society seems to be heavily individualistic, multicultural, capitalist, industrial, and secular yet dominated by Christian thought.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2008, 20:56 
Offline
Grand High Lord Admiral of Hell
User avatar

Joined: 10 Sep 2007, 13:14
Posts: 5726
Location: Buffalo, NY
Well ...

It sounds like at the 'community' level, it should work just fine. It's at the higher levels that it might be dicey.

Thanks so much for your views. :D

Now, though, I think I'm done for the night. (And if you guys don't hear from me for a week, it's because we're away and there was no chance to log in ... Cheers! :wave: )

_________________
If you can't stand the heat, don't tickle the dragon ...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2008, 21:00 
Offline
Neophyte

Joined: 25 Jul 2008, 08:48
Posts: 17
Hex wrote:
Well ...

It sounds like at the 'community' level, it should work just fine. It's at the higher levels that it might be dicey.

Thanks so much for your views. :D

Now, though, I think I'm done for the night. (And if you guys don't hear from me for a week, it's because we're away and there was no chance to log in ... Cheers! :wave: )

Yes, we're a very community-oriented people...though, the irony of it all is that our most current problem is creating communities. =P

Good night, Hex!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2008, 21:09 
Offline
Acolyte

Joined: 10 Jul 2008, 18:05
Posts: 22
TomasFlannabhra wrote:
Hex wrote:
Well ...

It sounds like at the 'community' level, it should work just fine. It's at the higher levels that it might be dicey.

Thanks so much for your views. :D

Now, though, I think I'm done for the night. (And if you guys don't hear from me for a week, it's because we're away and there was no chance to log in ... Cheers! :wave: )

Yes, we're a very community-oriented people...though, the irony of it all is that our most current problem is creating communities. =P

Good night, Hex!


Deithe dhuit, a Tomas!!!

Kinda hard to create communities when we are all so spread apart and low in number...
What do you see for the future of Gaelic Polytheist communities? How do you suppose these will be formed, if ever? Do you think Gaelic Polytheists will come together, or spread as we grow in number?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2008, 09:43 
Offline
Neophyte

Joined: 25 Jul 2008, 08:48
Posts: 17
Stoirmeacha wrote:
Deithe dhuit, a Tomas!!!
Kinda hard to create communities when we are all so spread apart and low in number...
What do you see for the future of Gaelic Polytheist communities? How do you suppose these will be formed, if ever? Do you think Gaelic Polytheists will come together, or spread as we grow in number?

I definitely see Gaelic Polytheist communities forming in the near future. Given the very communal nature of Gaelic Polytheism and people's natural strive for identity and community, Gaelic Polytheists will want to seek each other out and begin to form relationships.

Right now, Gaelic Polytheism is still in its early stages of development, and almost all participants are converts. Practice is usually individual and confined within the household. As I see it, Gaelic Polytheist communities will begin with individuals coming together. Gradually, the communities will include more families and then extended families, and over time the kindred will be the foundation of our communities once again. From there, a sort of "hierarchy", for lack of a better term, will organically begin to appear to fulfill the desires and needs(both spiritual and mundane) for a functioning community-- elders, cinn fine, draoi, etc.

Our communities won't be just spiritual, but cultural as well (and as we know, the two can never be separated). This strong bond between the sacred and secular will no doubt create create great cohesiveness, unity, and strength within our communities that will ensure our growth and survival.

Of course, the future of our communities and way of life heavily depends on our children as well. It is they who will make Gaelic Polytheism a living, continuing, and growing tradition once more. This is why a family spirituality is so important, amongst other things.


Last edited by TomasFlannabhra on 26 Jul 2008, 10:38, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2008, 10:23 
Offline
First Circle Initiate
User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2007, 00:23
Posts: 173
Hex,

There are sometimes violent disputes in discussing whether we should keep modernity entirely out or make concessions. One principle I've been developing is to only make concessions that are based on the underlying logic or principle behind an ancient dictum. For example, slavery. Of course the Romans practiced slavery, but it was for economic purposes, and therefore not important to the religion. Sacrifice is trickier, and I'm still formulating how the Romans would have viewed it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2008, 10:26 
Offline
Grand Poobah
User avatar

Joined: 18 Sep 2007, 11:26
Posts: 5793
Location: Buffalo, NY
My gut and research tell me the Romans were incredibly logical and flexible when it came to religion.

I try to view it as more of a 'if unbroken, where would it be now?'

_________________
Chloride and Sodium: Two terribly dangerous substances that taste great together!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2008, 10:51 
Offline
First Circle Initiate
User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2007, 00:23
Posts: 173
Well, that depends on the limitation of Romanity. Imperial or Republican? (Funny how those two words so start and contrastive became merged together in American speech.) Do we still worship Caesar and Augustus and the principes after them? And we have to remember that Roman religion largely took after Greek and other mediterranean family cults. There's the city religion, and there's the worship of Gods by the pagani. It's not simple. But the cool thing is that all of the Mediterranean world is connected like that.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2008, 21:34 
Offline
Grand High Lord Admiral of Hell
User avatar

Joined: 10 Sep 2007, 13:14
Posts: 5726
Location: Buffalo, NY
Okay ... I'm back and I've a new tack to take with a question that occurred to me over the time I was away ... :idea:

How do you propose to 'build' or 'foster' community?
(And I'm not just looking to Tomas and Stoirmeacha here, Chris you count too! :D )
:2drunks: (or for Chris, :wine_toast: )

Since I'm (and in the sense of those building or helping to build/ form the board, we're) looking at the aspect of building a cyber community as well as a discussion board, hence we have the areas here that we do.

Now, personally, as a more solitary-/ family-based practitioner, my community is based much more on social aspects than a coherence of theology. So ...

How do you guys do/ propose to do/ attempt to do it?

(Hmmm ... Need I find a mead smilie? :wink: )

_________________
If you can't stand the heat, don't tickle the dragon ...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 13 Aug 2008, 15:32 
Offline
Neophyte

Joined: 25 Jul 2008, 08:48
Posts: 17
Hex wrote:
How do you propose to 'build' or 'foster' community?

Quote:
my community is based much more on social aspects than a coherence of theology.

Exactly.

Communities will be built by and held cohesive not by theology, but by a common body of practices, rites/ rituals, and cultural values. Ritual is an expression of the collective experience of a people, it expresses their values, beliefs, world-view, and more. Ritual brings people into communion with each other as they bring themselves into communion with the gods and spirits. As people of Gaelic ancestry, we are also attracted to each other because of our shared and common experience of the world.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 13 Aug 2008, 21:03 
Offline
Grand High Lord Admiral of Hell
User avatar

Joined: 10 Sep 2007, 13:14
Posts: 5726
Location: Buffalo, NY
So, would you categorize the community as based in greater shared views, then enhanced by shared ritual?

If so, is there an influence in reconstructing the ritual with a social rather than personal focus?

_________________
If you can't stand the heat, don't tickle the dragon ...


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 43 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group