The Round Table (Rational Pagans Forum)

Science & The Supernatural: A Discussion of the World Around us - Based on Science with an Interest in the Supernatural ...
It is currently 15 Dec 2018, 17:40

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Please note: Discussion here should be relatively civil. Attack the post, not the poster. Thanks!



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: 27 Jan 2009, 13:06 
Offline
Grand High Lord Admiral of Hell
User avatar

Joined: 10 Sep 2007, 13:14
Posts: 5726
Location: Buffalo, NY
Becoming Disenchanted with Wicca

Author: Jenna

First of all, allow me to state for the record that this essay might provoke much hate mail and I highly doubt that the majority of people will even give the topic a chance. So be it. I'm not writing it for them. I'm writing it for those like myself who have tried for years to guide Wicca into something special, something far beyond the conventional religions available to the masses and have become increasingly disappointed at the evolution of both Wicca and modern Paganism in general.

If you think that my point of view is somehow heretical, consider that Raymond Buckland has given many interviews where he proclaims his dismay at how Wicca has become a philosophy that embraces everything and stands for nothing in the minds of many of the modern Wiccans.

Now, this is not yet another "I hate fluffy bunnies" essay like the ones I have seen here and else where on the Net. I have no problem with so called fluffy bunnies; we all started off as beginners (except for those who claim a highly doubtful lineage stretching back to the Druids or something) , most of us have learnt mainly from books and now the Net, and most of us do not want to spend 40 years trying to understand the medieval texts that so many Wiccans are now claiming to be "real Wicca". At best they are but a few hundred years old (there is no evidence that they dated from the time of Solomon as they claim) and belong to the Judeo-Christian faiths, not Paganism.

In fact, this "battle" between wannabe Ceremonial Wiccans and the "fluffy bunnies" is what drove me to distance myself from Wicca in the first place and to simply declare myself a Pagan, but even that is becoming harder to claim these days.

Why? Why am I seriously considering abandoning the faith that has helped me through several very depressing years, helped healed my body, mind, and soul, helped me to find my soulmate and to accept my body to become healthy enough to become pregnant? Why would I consider giving up the grace and love of the Goddess and the God, the flow of the seasons? Well, there are a few reasons why, and here they are:

1) Wicca is trying REALLY hard to become a mainstream religion. I'm not one of those people who chose Wicca to irk the parents (although it did do that) or to be an outsider. I chose it because it meant something deeper, more profound than conventional faiths. The Goddess and the God are not "out there, somewhere"; they are in us. They ARE us. Our very souls, our very breath, all come from the Gods. And we don't have to believe that they're deities in the classical sense.

...

2) We now LOVE the Christians (Never mind that a good lot of them would love to go back to the "good old days" when they could literally burn people like us) . Why is this a problem? Shouldn't we foster peace and understanding with the dominant religious force in the Western world? No, not at the cost of selling our souls.

...

3) We need to stand with the secularists. I'm certain that many of you have read my views on humanism and secularism on my posts and even my acceptance and embrace of atheism. We all need to do that in the Wiccan community and as alternative belief systems in general. Why? Because, as Pope Benny showed, when push comes to shove the orthodox faiths stand together. Catholicism and Islam might very well hate one another, but they hate secularism even more and they strike out against it whenever they can.

...

4) I'll make this one quick, but here it is: Wicca seems to be becoming more superstitious as it ages. You might think that's a good thing; I think it's the doom of the faith. When people claim that the myths are literally true, that astrology is a science, that they can make things fly about, etc. it just makes Paganism look like a bunch of nuts and rightfully so. Look, NeoPaganism accounts for a very small percentage of the population. So you might very well be the first Wiccan someone has ever met. What does this mean?

...

Entire Essay on WitchVox

_________________
If you can't stand the heat, don't tickle the dragon ...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 Jan 2009, 14:51 
Offline
Acolyte

Joined: 26 Jan 2009, 22:29
Posts: 33
Wow, that was posted on TWV? Given that I can't access the rest of the article right now (server busy and/or asploded error), I can only imagine the response.

I'll have to try and remember to revisit this, and work (and training schedules) is fast descending upon me even as I type.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2009, 22:57 
Offline
Neighbor of the Beast

Joined: 03 Nov 2007, 09:17
Posts: 667
So what Jenna is saying is that this faith is rapidly evolving into the same dogma ridden mass faith structure that has taken all manner of kooky sideline religions into prominence?

There is that one about the Jewish preacher that the Romans took out because he was stirring up the masses and the local Jewish government felt threatened.

:imeter:

There was that one made by the guy that wandered around in the desert and is reputed to have moved mountains.

:banghead:

There is also the one that was written by a noted author on a bet with a buddy.

:tin_hat:

Heck, kooky religions get main streamed all the time.

Is that sort of like taking drugs? "Man, I decided to get the max kick out of my faith by Mainstreaming it dude..."

Didn't we have a thread about this somewhere?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2009, 08:22 
Offline
Grand Poobah
User avatar

Joined: 18 Sep 2007, 11:26
Posts: 5793
Location: Buffalo, NY
HavenMage wrote:
So what Jenna is saying is that this faith is rapidly evolving into the same dogma ridden mass faith structure that has taken all manner of kooky sideline religions into prominence?

There is that one about the Jewish preacher that the Romans took out because he was stirring up the masses and the local Jewish government felt threatened.

:imeter:

There was that one made by the guy that wandered around in the desert and is reputed to have moved mountains.

:banghead:

There is also the one that was written by a noted author on a bet with a buddy.

:tin_hat:

Heck, kooky religions get main streamed all the time.

Is that sort of like taking drugs? "Man, I decided to get the max kick out of my faith by Mainstreaming it dude..."

Didn't we have a thread about this somewhere?


Yes, we did.

Here it is.

I love that thread.

Image

_________________
Chloride and Sodium: Two terribly dangerous substances that taste great together!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2009, 11:41 
Offline
First Circle Initiate

Joined: 16 Dec 2008, 14:09
Posts: 141
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Her objections and concerns are valid.
However, since Wicca is not a single religion (in fact it can be argued that if you have 20 Wiccans in a room, you have > 20 religions present), there isn't much that can be done to avoid the path that many practitioners are following.

Wicca works as a religion and a magical framework for personal and shared growth, but it isn't 'chant this and dance around the tree and Hermes will give you a new career'.
It takes solid, consistent work.

But, I think everyone here already knows that, so I will just sit over here and listen, OK?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2017, 21:36 
Offline
First Circle Initiate

Joined: 27 Mar 2017, 03:16
Posts: 187
force soccer shoes of the swarovski online Red Army's nike air max security, at the swarovski expense nike mercurial of local interests oakley sunglasses outlet alone. givenchy handbags Take the leadership of longchamp outlet our armani shoes outlet long jimmy choo shoes march, the leading cadres pandora uk must michael kors outlet online strengthen the redskins nfl jersey politicawareness, oakley vault the long champ overall situation, packers nfl jersey the hollister core consciousness, cheap nhl jerseys sense brooklyn nets jersey of nike consciousness, consciously timberwolves jersey ideological cheap ray ban action on the party with polo ralph lauren the hogan outlet party levi's jeans to maintain panthers nfl jersey a free run high wizards jersey degree nike air max of mbt mens shoes consistency, horloges the majority occhiali oakley of coach factory outlet party kids hoodies members michael kors should consciously celine bags do nike free communism michael kors bags lofty Ideals ralph lauren black friday and the nike shoes common ideals omega watches of chiefs nfl jersey socialism with Chinese north face characteristics, reebok faithful practitioners, oakley black friday so puma sneakers that our party philadelphia 76ers jerseys is adidas outlet more cheap oakley sunglasses united converse sneakers and strong. giants nfl jersey Rooted lions nfl jersey people salvatore ferragamo fertile true religion outlet soil, giuseppe shoes blooming burberry handbags revival Fanghua. mont blanc On the new balance way nike to christian louboutin the oakley sunglasses long ferragamo shoes march, along burberry handbags the michael kors handbags masses for the nike outlet store Red cheap jerseys Army fund-raising, cooking water, collecting jordan intelligence, rescue the rolex replica wounded, asics gel to ray ban sonnenbrillen provide vikings nfl jersey military nfl jerseys sources. north face It ray ban can timberland shoes be oakley sunglasses outlet said that a pandora history michael kors of the nike free run Red lunette oakley Army polo ralph lauren outlet online Long March new balance canada is under armour curry a cheap jerseys vivid burberry sale history fake rolex that salomon reflects the ecology of the azcardinals nfl jersey military and five finger shoes the plein outlet people. grizzlies jersey In prada shoes fact, adidas with atlanta hawks jersey the new balance people all michael kors the titans nfl jersey way dolphins nfl jersey counterparts cheap glasses in the coach handbags 95 michael kors years mcm bags of magnificent saints nfl jersey history ralph lauren outlet of kings jersey the chargers nfl jersey Communist hollister kids Party ralph lauren online shop of China continue to hollister grow michael kors and michael kors outlet develop, and now juicy couture outlet has tommy hilfiger since cartier montres the establishment omega of barbour jackets dozens vans shoes of party members developed timberland boots into marc jacobs more http://www.nba-shoes.com/ than ray ban sunglasses 8800 michael kors taschen million bills nfl jersey members steelers nfl jersey of bcbg max the true religion jeans men world's most powerful max shoes ruling party. timberland outlet Winning ray ban the nike huaraches "thirteen ralph lauren outlet online five", prada should dre beats adhere new balance outlet to the hollisterco people as jaguars nfl jersey the center. Xi Jinping, longchamp outlet general secretary clearly rockets jersey pointed michael kors handbags out longchamp black friday that the coach outlet canada long march pandora charms is handbags outlet always north face on oakley the road. aktienkurse adidas The north face outlet spirit of dsquared2 outlet the wedding dresses Long barbour jackets March tommy hilfiger embodies the coach handbags outlet fine thomas sabo traditions and styles ray ban of air jordan shoes the converse Party and the beats by dr dre Red nike shoes outlet Army. ray bans It coach outlet online is a chaussure timberland comprehensive hollisterco display oakley vault of nike air force the Chinese eyeglasses stores people's michael kors purses world lacoste outlet online outlook, swarovski jewelry outlook nike air max 2014 on life and bucks jersey values, nike air huarache and a valuable spiritual juicy couture wealth of fidget spinner the nike outlet Chinese nation. burberry sale With cheap clothes this spirit, new balance shoes there air max is versace clothes nothing longchamp to coach outlet sale overcome designer handbags the difficulties, seahawks nfl jersey we fendi bags are chi hair fully confident that there coach outlet online is cheap mlb jerseys determination to texans nfl jersey persevere michael kors outlet in jordan jerseys the great rejuvenation of nba jersey the nike Chinese nation cheap true religion to achieve the Chinese dsquared2 jeans dream. discount shoes Cherish jerseys from china the memory of hilfiger online shop the nike roshe martyrs. babyliss pro Today burberry handbags outlet is the burberry "two oakley hundred cavaliers jerseys years" to air max one achieve nike air yeezy the coach factory online goal michael kors of nike tracksuits the new long adidas canada march, our raptors jersey generation must carry bears nfl jersey forward the spirit hilfiger outlet of michael kors handbags the Long March, ray ban sunglasses outlet take our generation true religion of hogan long ray ban outlet road, build a national beats by dr dre revival the north face dream.Carry forward ipad mini cases the composition vans of oakley sunglasses the Long oakley MarchFrom louboutin outlet 1930 nike roche run onwards, Chiang Kai-shek mobilized the army air max 90 on the mcm handbags central hermes birkin bag revolutionary louboutin outlet base for broncos nfl jersey four mcm handbags consecutive "encirclement oakley sunglasses cheap and suppression", phoenix suns but indoor soccer shoes failed the north face outlet in the ray ban end. In roshe runs the ray ban outlet autumn of ralph lauren 1933, north face backpacks the coach store online Red coach factory Army ralph lauren outlet online organized michael kors outlet online the basketball shoes fifth "anti-encirclement and suppression". pacers jersey As kate spade outlet online the trail blazers jersey CCP's interim center rams nfl jersey completely abandoned Mao colts nfl jersey Zedong's military polo ralph line, philipp plein clothing and prada outlet insisted hermes bags on kate spade outlet online carrying roshe run out Wang ray ban wayfarer Ming's fossil uhren "leftist" calvin klein underwear wrong claim, the watches canada fifth michael kors canada "anti-encirclement northface and nike roshe suppression" beats audio failed. In orlando magic jersey October air max 90 1934, tommy hilfiger more oakley sunglasses outlet than ferragamo shoes 80,000 ralph lauren uk people from the coach store outlet Central Committee of hermes the ralph lauren factory store Communist hogan women shoes Party hollister of China christian louboutin shoes (CPC) jimmy choo outlet and the Central Red Army were supra footwear forced nike to leave 49ers nfl jersey the tn pas cher Central nike free run 5.0 Revolutionary replica rolex Base and nike began ralph lauren polos the Long air force March. cheap oakley Zunyi ferragamo meeting, thomas sabo under ralph lauren polo the leadership of coach store Mao Zedong, huarache the oakley canada Red occhiali ray ban Army polo ralph lauren to converse overcome the cheap oakley sunglasses dilemma, ecco outlet online Chiang Kai-shek's rolex watches military jets nfl jersey besieged, burberry outlet but clippers jersey also ralph lauren outlet can handbags outlet not stop golden state warriors jerseys the coach purses factory Red new orleans pelicans Army's road ray-ban sunglasses course, on the contrary, they are nike air max 2014 more eagles nfl jersey and cheap barbour jackets more dallas mavericks jerseys courageous michael kors handbags ... swarovski canada ... 1936 kate spade bags October, the Red jordans Army marc jacobs victory nike Air Max Plaza arrived in nike outlet northern Shaanxi, kevin durant jersey The raiders nfl jersey victory buccaneers nfl jersey of the north face Long March oakley sunglasses victory over. coach bags The bottega veneta victory air jordans of michael kors outlet the Long converse shoes March cheap oakley sunglasses not mcm handbags outlet only red bottom shoes shattered coach factory outlet online the plot of the Kuomintang, cheap nhl jerseys but ed hardy also made longchamp the michael kors purses bureau to cheap jordans turn ray ban black friday the louboutin uk corner. Yeah! ralph lauren outlet online The valentino Long chrome hearts store March knockoff handbags can be swarovski crystal described giuseppe zanotti sneakers as nba jerseys a baseball bats loud veneta and straightforward jazz jersey hymn, it cheap mlb jerseys has inspired coach black friday the jordans number bengals nfl jersey of pandora people longchamp with michael kors outlet online lofty cheap jerseys ideals bcbg max azria to follow longchamp handbags ... ... ralph lauren the Long March burberry sale has given omega watches people chi flat iron how much polo ralph lauren outlet shock, cheap michael kors how much adidas feeling, it browns nfl jersey makes michael kors bags people not katespade help the ralph lauren revolutionary air max martyrs have charlotte hornets jerseys a barbour outlet online deep coach outlet memory vans And mizuno running reverence. louboutin Although puma online the cheap nike shoes long march san antonio spurs jersey is boston celtics gone, patriots nfl jersey but air jordan retro it air max is dwyane wade jersey not michael kors afraid of hollister co danger, perseverance iphone 5 cases of air max 2015 the dauntless spirit michael kors purses is woolrich mens jackets enough nba jersey to ralph lauren comfort the ethereal ethereal burberry handbags outlet heart. Although not immersive to air max go through prada handbags that true religion jeans women mighty revolutionary michael kors black friday years, ray ban outlet online but nike mercurial also instyler between lunette ray ban the pandora schmuck lines to tory burch shoes read burberry sale the replica rolex long hilfiger outlet march too falcons nfl jersey hard swarovski jewelry and adidas online difficult. mcm bags Yeah! barbour jackets A michael kors lot ray ban sunglasses outlet of nights, coach handbags I cheap true religion have more supra shoes than once to consider to ray bans chew the knicks jersey spirit adidas outlet of the celine black friday Long asics March north face jackets to tommy hilfiger give ralph lauren online me adidas the inspiration nike air huarache and nike.com vibration. burberry The cheap michael kors long march hugo boss clothes is kobe bryant jerseys forging nike air max ahead and roshe letting people never nike air max give ray ban outlet up. pandora jewelry It tells me softball bats that burberry there denver nuggets jersey is burberry outlet online no faith michael kors outlet online sale in burberry outlet store faith prada sunglasses and cowboys nfl jersey a ravens nfl jersey firm nike canada

red bottoms


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group