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Who will win this religious war?
1) Science will win this battle and the war because it is overwhelmingly evidence based and Evolution is a fact 67%  67%  [ 4 ]
2) Religion will win because God (or x) is the law of the Universe 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
3) I'm staying the hell out of this holy war! 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
4) Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
4.5) Undecided 17%  17%  [ 1 ]
4.5a)i) Could go either way? 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
5) Other 17%  17%  [ 1 ]
6) Random thought about clouds or some such/FSM. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 6
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PostPosted: 25 Dec 2009, 00:44 
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Who do you think is going to win this long running grudge match the IDiots or people like Dawkins?

And will Southpark write a biting Satire about these issues?

God and his minions or Darwin et al: who will be triumphant in this Battle Royale? The Catholics and Anglicans have fallen but a rallying cry from The Protestants particularly the fundamentalists, and a late fragile and distrusting alliance with Islam has throw open the field once more as science is attacked from all sides.

The renewed battle has left some reeling but the bastions are still stout. But let's not rule out a late entry to the battle by Eastern Orthodoxy or Ultra Orthodox Judaism...

The Dagda: The God of the Forests and Fields is bemused...

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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2009, 09:09 
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I picked other. There are plenty of people who believe in Intelligent Design they acknowledge science but believe God is the source. I think if your going to believe in a creator you have to give them some credit for the world. Doesn't mean you toss science.


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PostPosted: 29 Dec 2009, 12:45 
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As Far As I Know, the last Pope made it official that the Catholic Church believed in evolution, just that God was the initial cause.

Intelligent Design, As Far As I Know, says god had a hand in all parts...

ok, no more As Far As I Know:

According to wiki, Catholics on evolution:

Quote:
Since the publication of Charles Darwin's On the Origin of Species in 1859, the position of the Catholic Church on the theory of evolution has slowly been refined. For about 100 years, there was no authoritative pronouncement on the subject. In the 1950s, the Church's position was one of neutrality; by the late 20th century its position evolved to one of implicit acceptance.

Today, the Church's official position is a fairly non-specific example of theistic evolution, stating that faith and scientific findings regarding human evolution are not in conflict, though humans are regarded as a special creation, and that the existence of God is required to explain both monogenism and the spiritual component of human origins. No infallible declarations by the Pope or an Ecumenical Council have been made.


and ID and evolution:

Quote:
Intelligent design is presented as an alternative to natural explanations for the origin and diversity of life. It stands in opposition to conventional biological science, which relies on the scientific method to explain life through observable processes such as mutation and natural selection.
The stated purpose of intelligent design is to investigate whether or not existing empirical evidence implies that life on Earth must have been designed by an intelligent agent or agents. William A. Dembski, one of intelligent design's leading proponents, has said that the fundamental claim of intelligent design is that "there are natural systems that cannot be adequately explained in terms of undirected natural forces and that exhibit features which in any other circumstance we would attribute to intelligence".


It looks like ID denies science implicitly. At least over this aspect.

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PostPosted: 29 Dec 2009, 16:15 
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The popes both PJPII and the new guy have distanced themselves from the ID movement as has the Archbishop of The Church of England: Rowan Williams. That's two of the top three religions and I suspect Orthodox are pretty much on the same side as the Catholics after all they are very simillar religions. So probably the top 3 which means almost all Christians are followers of not ID, but of design by God. Let's make clear that ID is really creationism repackaged and evolutionary "creationism" is God made The Universe, and everything proceeded from there.

It really is only fundamentalists, Christian, Islamic or Jew that are still claimng Genesis is literally true. In the case of divine command in Islam then they are all creationists or they are not Islamic per se.

"Evolution is more than a mere hypothesis."

Pope John Paul II.

Might find this interesting a dialogue between Dawkins And The Archbishop of Canterbury:

http://www.vidoemo.com/yvideo.php?dawki ... uRpQXQtbDQ

I think Rowan William's demonstrates the difference between an educated Theologian and a creationist in general.

However as Dawkins says the distinction is mostly semantic between liberal and conservative Christian. So?

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PostPosted: 30 Dec 2009, 09:35 
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I was "saved" after high school in college. I also was planning on being a vet so I was fairly science oriented. It was never a big deal to me to believe in science but that God created the elements and the law of science the world worked by. I have always assumed ID was more oriented that way since creationism isn't. Guess I was wrong and sounds like they are the same thing with one group wanting to seem more smart about the approach. Now that I am back to being a non-believer it was pretty easy to adjust to this particular issue.


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PostPosted: 30 Dec 2009, 12:57 
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yeah, ID is basically creationism warmed over.

They just took Yahweh's name out of it, to make it 'inclusive'.

<sigh>

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PostPosted: 30 Dec 2009, 17:23 
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jess wrote:
yeah, ID is basically creationism warmed over.

They just took Yahweh's name out of it, to make it 'inclusive'.

<sigh>


Indeed Jess, and this is where FSM came in: if not God then why not FSM?

Clever stuff, on the surface it just looks like parody that is imprecise, but it is satire of a very precise nature.

If not Yahweh then why not FSM? Who made the universe if not? :p

They changed their tune to try and get it into schools without the Christian message, that would avoid the constitutional issues, of course what they didn't foresee is that meant if no God then all gods equally even FSM PBUH, and even Thor or Zeus, which defeats the object of both creationism and it's shiny coin friend ID, they are the same thing, they can but not be. They realised that without the God thing they were jerking around, and ID could not exist unless it was with a God or particular belief thus it was shot dead in the courts and hoisted by it's own petard by simple logic. If you are going to be a hypocrite it's easy to call you out in this case.

"I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; One third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence."


Bobby Henderson: Pasta Be Upon Him (PBUH).

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Flyi ... ti_Monster

By the way I cannot recommend this site highly enough if you have a spare half hour view it, it parodies the whole thing beautifully and is hilarious IMHO. Probably seen it before but if not, why not? Not an advert by the way just Uncyclopedia the content free version of Wikipedia so .org.

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PostPosted: 20 Jan 2010, 01:49 
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Is evolution a science? Is creationism a science? What is science, anyway? Is there evidence for either? Religious fundamentalists often attack evolution, but rarely from a positions of really understanding what evolution is and how it works. Te documents in this FAQ will not only teach you more about the nature of evolution and evolutionary theory, but it will also explain some of the more common complaints and where they go wrong.

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PostPosted: 20 Jan 2010, 04:35 
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davidlinchi wrote:
Is evolution a science? Is creationism a science? What is science, anyway? Is there evidence for either? Religious fundamentalists often attack evolution, but rarely from a positions of really understanding what evolution is and how it works. Te documents in this FAQ will not only teach you more about the nature of evolution and evolutionary theory, but it will also explain some of the more common complaints and where they go wrong.


Evolution is called scientific fact and there is no dispute that natural selection and evolution are the process by which we evolve from generation to generation, to have pretty much 100% consensus in science is unheard of, even in chemistry. So it is pretty much extremely well supported series of scientific theories, if not quite a law yet although one isn't better than the other. Although frankly it is as widely accepted as the law of gravity.

There is an absolutely massive amount of evidence for evolution, literally millions of pieces of evidence that support the theory. Creationism or Intelligent Design, not a single piece of hard evidence, and lots of arm waving and philosophical blather, but nothing remotely evidential.

There is as much evidence that the FSM created a man a mountain and a midget and rested on the fourth day as there is God done it, or that Chronos was the father of time and hence creation . So quite rightly they are neither scientifically valid although clearly FSM is the one true religion as they have pirates and ninjas and all those other religions are just illin, fo shizzle.

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