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Science & The Supernatural: A Discussion of the World Around us - Based on Science with an Interest in the Supernatural ...
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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2009, 21:55 
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Acolyte
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I have an idea, not sure how to support it and I don't know where I got it from, but it has had no chance to be heard anywhere I've tried to express it.

Religion is a huge part of how pre-historic people bound together into tribes, its a foundation of civilization.

That doesn't mean we can't outgrow it, but it does mean its ignorant to hate religion or to think religion is evil.


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PostPosted: 10 Aug 2009, 05:45 
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Neighbor of the Beast

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Is it a tribal bond?

I always had the impression that it was a bond that helped bind multiple tribes together with a dogmatic belief structure.

I have always thought that it's primary purpose was to provide persons with an reason for things being as they are, a system of beliefs that allowed them to come to grips with the natural world and the scary bits therein...

Hmmm, I wonder what sociologists say. Anyone?


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PostPosted: 10 Aug 2009, 17:17 
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'Lustrous Potentate
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I think the origin of religion is probably something like that, as well as the reason for its continuing existence. But how does that make you ignorant to think that it is bad? I think all kinds of things are bad, even though I have a good idea why they exist.

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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2009, 17:18 
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Acolyte
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dug_down_deep wrote:
I think the origin of religion is probably something like that, as well as the reason for its continuing existence. But how does that make you ignorant to think that it is bad? I think all kinds of things are bad, even though I have a good idea why they exist.

I said "evil", not "bad". Does that change anything?

There are lots of benefits for the believers. I think it's a minor subset of Christians who hold that they have the one true truth. I work for retired people, and in general the healthiest tend to be those with little Christian shrines in their rooms. There are exceptions of course. But I can't imagine thinking that god-belief is somehow unhealthy. On the contrary.


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PostPosted: 12 Aug 2009, 05:46 
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Neighbor of the Beast

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One of the big things about many religions is the comfort that true believers gain from a promise of a pleasant afterlife...

....of course, there are people that believe that they will win the lottery too...


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PostPosted: 17 Aug 2009, 10:55 
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'Lustrous Potentate
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Garrett wrote:
I said "evil", not "bad". Does that change anything?

Mmm, probably not. You also mentioned 'hating' it. I'm more concerned with the problem of equating dislike (or hate or labeling something evil) with ignorance, though. It strikes me as one of those Oprah sayings that isn't really true.

Quote:
There are lots of benefits for the believers. I think it's a minor subset of Christians who hold that they have the one true truth. I work for retired people, and in general the healthiest tend to be those with little Christian shrines in their rooms. There are exceptions of course. But I can't imagine thinking that god-belief is somehow unhealthy. On the contrary.

There are many Christians whose faith benefits them and those around them. I won't deny this, since I see it in my life as well. My mother is a perfect example.

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PostPosted: 23 Aug 2009, 21:48 
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Grand High Lord Admiral of Hell
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Garrett wrote:
I have an idea, not sure how to support it and I don't know where I got it from, but it has had no chance to be heard anywhere I've tried to express it.

Religion is a huge part of how pre-historic people bound together into tribes, its a foundation of civilization.

That doesn't mean we can't outgrow it, but it does mean its ignorant to hate religion or to think religion is evil.


It is true that as a cultural function, religions (as a whole aspect) serve to bring together disparate factions, ethnicities, and age-groups toward a common world-view. I don't know that I'd say that it is a 'foundation' of civilization, but it definitely is a powerful tool. (Look to the Shang culture of China for a civilization w/out religion - ancestor worship, yes, but centralized religion, no.)

These aspects of a culture are important since they can induce people to self-police due to either a specific code of ethics embodied in the religion's cosmogony, or due to the supernatural (or even physical) sanctions that the supernatural (or their followers) may enact, either in the immediate future or in an afterlife. This sort of control on people's actions are extremely powerful, but in this way, not necessarily evil, per se.

Unfortunately, many of the items and injunctions in the codes of ethics are interwoven into the cultures (and times) from which they were built and codified. Thus, we are, in many ways, correct in viewing many religions as being antiquated and not appropriate for our modern world.

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PostPosted: 19 Sep 2009, 08:08 
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Guardian of the East

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Garrett wrote:
There are lots of benefits for the believers.

Benefits that they cannot possibly get elsewhere?

Ebonmuse has recently blogged on how There Is No God-Shaped Hole, noting some research that states that the most confident atheists as well as the most confident believers do better than those in the middle, and that previous studies have tended to mix all nonreligious people together.

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I think it's a minor subset of Christians who hold that they have the one true truth.

You think?

Claims of exclusive truth are the traditional belief in Xianity, and in the Abrahamic religions generally. Look at what the stricter sects and the more traditionalist ones tend to say.


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PostPosted: 20 Sep 2009, 19:52 
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Neighbor of the Beast

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lpetrich wrote:
...noting some research that states that the most confident atheists as well as the most confident believers do better than those in the middle,...


Which just goes to show how much better life is when you live confidently...


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PostPosted: 21 Sep 2009, 09:22 
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Shadowrunner

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Garrett, have you ever read any of Joseph Campbell's "Power of Myth"?

(Or rent the DVDs, they are great too.)


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PostPosted: 28 May 2016, 17:41 
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Adherent

Joined: 24 Mar 2010, 15:01
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Garrett wrote:
I have an idea, not sure how to support it and I don't know where I got it from, but it has had no chance to be heard anywhere I've tried to express it.

Religion is a huge part of how pre-historic people bound together into tribes, its a foundation of civilization.

That doesn't mean we can't outgrow it, but it does mean its ignorant to hate religion or to think religion is evil.


This is how you support your view.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T64_El2s7FU

That aside, there are definite benefits to belief but to reject logic and reason to believe lies is not a healthy thing for a mind.

Whatever good comes out of religions has been negated by all the murder and mayhem cause by past and present mainstream religions as both Christianity and Islam are still producing homophobes and misogynous people who are still slowing down human rights everywhere.

Regards
DL


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